Two Reasons Why We Recommend You Not Record Phone Calls in Alabama
Two Reasons Why We Recommend You Not Record Phone Calls in Alabama
We are often asked if abusive debt collectors should be recorded.
The short answer is “No.”
The longer answer is, “Not usually.”
There is a lot of information on the internet about recording calls.
We wrote this free report to help give you our perspective so you can have more information to make the right choice on whether or not to record calls when dealing with an abusive debt collector.
Reason One – Avoid Prosecution In A Foreign State.
We are often asked about Alabama consumers recording conversations here and isn’t it legal since Alabama is a “one party state”?
Alabama is a one party state, but you can still be prosecuted.
Confused?
One party state means that only one person in the phone conversation needs to consent to the recording of the conversation.
So, if you are on the phone with an abusive collection agency, and you consent, that is one person so you can record.
Sounds simple, right?
Well, that is the advice we gave years ago but we have changed now.
Here’s why.
In a two party state, both parties have to agree to the recording.
This is why you often hear “This call may be recorded” when you call certain companies.
Some of these two party states take the position that even though it may be legal for you in Alabama to record the call, it violates the law of their state and so they will prosecute you in their state. I think this is bogus and against the law but you need to know about it if you decide to record a call.
Also keep in mind that often times we cannot tell where a debt collector is calling from or where our call is going to as the larger collection agencies may route calls through different offices and you can’t tell this through caller ID.
The letter from the collection agency may say “Atlanta” but when you call the collector may pick up the phone in Florida, a two party state.
So here is how this can work against you.
Let’s say an abusive debt collector keeps calling.
You secretly record the phone call.
Congratulations, you’ve captured this abusive call on tape, and you’re ready to sue this disgusting collection agency.
You then file suit and your lawyer sends over the recording.
Instead of the collection agency offering you money, your lawyer gets a nasty letter informing him that you have violated the laws of the state of, say, Florida and the district attorney where the collector is located (and employs lots of people) is looking at opening a criminal prosecution against you in Florida.
The unstated but clear message is if you drop the civil case you will not be prosecuted.
(This is almost universally forbidden to blackmail someone like this but we are talking about realities here, not a fantasy world).
So, what do you do?
Move forward and hire a lawyer in Florida (or California or wherever) to defend you?
Or do you drop the suit and hope you won’t be prosecuted?
This relatively new approach by two party states is the primary reason we tell consumers not to record phone calls.
If you don’t record phone calls, you don’t have to worry about being prosecuted somewhere else.
[Please note – this does not apply to voicemail messages. The debt collector knew he or she was leaving a recorded message – that’s the whole point of a voice mail! So there is no issue with consent as the collector consented by leaving the message.]
[Clarification: It is not wrong to record a call just make sure you are comfortable doing it the right way to protect yourself.]
But, if you can’t record then how can you prove your case?
This leads us to the second reason not to record….
REASON TWO – IT IS NOT NECESSARY
Many consumers believe that if they do not have the abusive debt collector on tape, then there is no case.
Some debt collectors and their defense lawyers act the same way – as if there is no proof if there is no recording.
This is simply not true.
You are qualified to testify to what the debt collector said to you.
The best practice is to make notes as you are on the phone.
You can do this on your computer or on a notebook or on a collection log. (See our article on “How To Use The Collection Log When Dealing With Debt Collectors“).
Immediately after hanging up the phone, review your notes and see what changes are needed to make them as accurate as possible.
Did you abbreviate some words?
Make a note what the words mean.
If there is anything unclear, make it clear right after you hang up the phone.
Note the time and date of the call and who called you.
Here is why some consumers believe recordings are essential:
The debt collector will not put in its notes that it used profanity or threatened you with jail time for not paying a bill. Our response? Big deal.
Of course the debt collector will not record entries into the collection notes that will open the debt collector up to a lawsuit or expose the individual collector to being terminated.
We can show that collector notes are almost always unreliable.
So it comes down to your testimony versus the debt collector’s testimony.
The collector will say he has no memory of threatening you or cursing at you.
He will say he remembers the call very well.
Of course the next question we ask is, “Tell us about the call right before the one with my client.”
No memory.
Or the one five people after our client.
These collectors have dozens of calls in a day and yet they claim they can remember what they told you six months ago?
Not likely.
The reason you can remember is you have had just a few collection calls and because you carefully and faithfully note all the calls you get in your computer, notebook, or other collection log.
If you are a credible and believable person, then who needs a recording? In our judgment a recording is just not that important for most cases.
BUT IF YOU DO RECORD, HERE ARE SOME SUGGESTIONS:
If you decide to go ahead and record, then here are some suggestions.
First, make sure that your recording device/app is working properly. If you are going to take a chance recording, make sure you get something out of it. Test out your recording device with a friend who is agreeable to you doing this.
Second, tell the debt collector at the beginning of the conversation that you are going to record the call.
Tell the collector if he or she keeps talking you are going to assume they agree to be recorded.
[Here is an option — if the collector or a recording says “This call may be recorded” then it is reasonable in my opinion for you to take the position that they are agreeing to the recording. So you have the collector and you agreeing — that’s good for a two party state.]
If they won’t agree, then end the call.
Third, do not act any different on the recording.
Once you have permission from the debt collector, then proceed with the conversation as if nothing is different.
This also means do not try to trick or trap the debt collector. Instead you are trying to gain information from the collector.
Fourth, as soon as the call is over mention on the recording the time and date of the call if you did not do so at the beginning of the call.
Fifth, transfer the recorded call to digital media as soon as possible. Get it on your computer or somewhere safe. You don’t want to go through all the effort to get a recording and then the recording is lost or misplaced.
CONCLUSION
We hope that this information will help you make the right decision in dealing with abusive debt collectors.
Keep in mind that whatever decision you make on calls with abusive debt collectors, remember you have rights and the better you document the abuses of debt collectors, the greater likelihood that you can stop them from ever abusing you again.
If you live in the state of Alabama, feel free to call us at 1-205-879-2447.
You an also fill out a contact form and we will get in touch with you as soon as possible.
I look forward to chatting with you!
Have a great day.
Question: what if you have your calls answered by your computer and have a program that alerts callers that all calls are recorded before it lets the phone ring into the house (some good friends/family have a different number to call that rings straight thru). A message alerts the caller that once he/she presses ‘1’, for example, he/she is acknowledging that his/her call is being recorded (maybe even ‘for quality control purposes’). Wouldn’t this be legal in a one and two-party state? It’s essentially the same thing corporations do when you call into their automated systems.
Todd,
Yes I think you are right. This would be the same as what many corporations do. I’m curious if you have tried this?
If so, do you have many hang ups or do companies that are calling you go ahead and proceed with the call even with the warning/acknowledgement that the calls will be recorded?
That is fascinating.
Please keep us posted on how that is working for you.
John Watts
“”The letter from the collection agency may say “Atlanta” but when you call the collector may pick up the phone in Florida, a two party state.”” Am I to understand that a company based in a one-party state may route calls through a two-party state in order to circumvent the law of their home state, or am I reading too much into this? And if they spoof their phone number, wouldn’t the state in which the area code of the spoofed number exists be the state of record. In fact, wouldn’t such spoofing be considered to be in the state corresponding to the given area code? How is the recipient to know they were lying; I’d say she/he was acting in good faith accepting their for it.
Yes they do this. I personally don’t think it is wrong for someone in Alabama (one party state) to record a call with a person from two party state like Florida. But the issue comes up what does Florida think about this?
I agree it is deceptive to route the calls but they will say it is only done for convenience or to control call volume (i.e. match the calls with employees regardless of physical location) but again you are at the mercy of a district attorney in another state.
Now I strongly believe that if the recording says “This call may be recorded” then the other side has consented. If you consent, that’s both parties.
Everyone has to decide if they are willing to take that chance but personally, I’m now comfortable doing that.
John
What if you called the debt collector from your work line and your work automatically records all calls? do I still have to notify them?
Kelly,
I think that is the best practice — let them know it is being recorded. Now if the collector says “This call may be recorded” then I think you are ok to record because the debt collector just gave you permission.
If you are in Alabama and want to chat give us a call at 205-879-2447.
Thanks for your comment….
John Watts
What if they are recording me and they have notified me of the recording. Do I still have to tell the creditor this call is being recorded, after they have informed me this call is being recoreded?
I think if the creditor or collector has told you that they are recording the call then they have given permission. And then if you give permission, I think you should be fine. Safest thing is to always tell them and you do need to know where they are calling from, etc.
Best wishes and thanks for the comment….
John Watts
What if I were to call from a one party state, to a person who has an Alabama phone number, but maybe is using it in FL? Even though she’s most likely in FL she may also well be in AL or in Germany or PA for that matter. (Tthat person conspired with others to steal your entire business and livelihood out from under you without a stitch of paperwork (changed the front door locks with police friends standing by) leaving your financially strapped butt on the street? (On top of everything else the person who’s name is on the sign (Bikram Yoga) has been indicted for rape recently, plus this woman is from Germany, married someone for a green card in Alabama(I think that’s her connection to Alabama originally) ten I think divorced him, gave money to a woman from Thailand (one of many mistresses of Bikram) who owns TWO restaurants in Orlando, who kept over $12,000 of my money+…what if I recorded her admitting that she and I had discussed becoming partners 6 months before Thai girl took studio away from me then resold to her 6 most later. Plus I also mentioned to her that I was asking her to explain the situation for youtube. She’s a computer geek-knows what youtube is…can’t I assume she knows she may be recorded at that point, and especially since there is no malicious reason behind my action only trying to make a strong case to find an attorney before the statute of limitation runs out *Also as crazy as this sounds Ive jokingly said that this woman works for Bundesnachrichtendienst and that is why she can afford the moving and renovation of this 10 yr old business without that many students, (business) to a new studio which overlooks NASA’s launch pad at Cape Canaveral, in a city whose economy has been hit very hard. Im still in a state of shock this was done, allowed to happen to me an dno one seems to care. Many lawyers Ive spoken with in Fl have told me I have a case, but so little money involved-no one cares…not to mention the illegality of what the police did. I had an accident a couple months after this happened so suffered even more financially beyond loosing the business. Normally I would have tried to keep going, but lost a lot of physical strength, unable to walk at times etc….getting old….devastated…
Sorry you have had so many difficulties lately.
Definitely recommend you get with a Florida lawyer or wherever this bad stuff happened to you.
As far as recording, I don’t think it is safe to assume consent to record unless the other person says “This call may be recorded” — there is judgment involved so certainly you want to ask your lawyer who knows all of the details for specific legal advice.
This whole area of recording can be a bit tricky and particularly with cell phones — as you mentioned — people may have a phone with an area code of one state, and may normally live there, but may be driving while on the phone. Driving across different states so it can be challenging to know which law applies.
This is why I recommend either making sure the other party has told you it is ok to record or just not recording at all.
Best wishes and I hope things get easier for you very soon!
John Watts
Birmingham, Alabama
If you grant your permission for the debt collector to record the call does that mean you can record the call as well? Are both parties allowed to record or is this a one way agreement? I’ve received harassing calls a “litigation group” (not an actual law firm) who are threatening me with legal action on a debt I do not owe. They use abusive language and are falsely representing themselves as the county clerks’ office.
Eve,
I believe if the debt collector says “This call may be recorded” then the debt collector is giving permission to record the call. In a two party state you have to do the same — that is give permission. Thus both of you would have given permission.
Having said this, I’ve seen collectors take the position when they are sued that they are the only ones who had permission to record. I think this is a stupid argument but it is made and you do have to consider this in whether or not you record.
Recording can be great but if you take good solid notes then it is not a requirement to bring a lawsuit against a collector or credit reporting agency or whoever it may be.
By the way this “litigation group” is probably a scam organization collecting, I would guess, on a pay day or online loan.
Normally if you insist they send you a letter in writing — through the mail (not fax not email) — they tend to go away.
I hope they will leave you alone soon — if you want to chat with us give us a call at 205-879-2447.
Thanks!
John Watts
I have found that there is a belief that it is ok for them to record you but not you record them. I told a lady at Wells Fargo for example, who their system explicitly stated the call maybe recorded, that I was recording the call. She did not like it and would not speak to me. Just confirmed that they do not have the integrity for me to do business with them.
Excellent point!
Funny how the banks think it is one sided.
Reason is if the recording is ever needed, and it is good for the bank, they have it.
But if the bank is lying or doing other illegal actions, those tapes get accidentally “lost” so they don’t want you to have your own copy.
Thanks for your comment!
John Watts
This is in California, a two-party state.
I have always wondered what it implies when the message notifying me of a call being recorded says the call will be recorded for “training and quality assurance” purposes. Has the recording party just limited themselves as to what they may use the recording for, or is there a legal definition of “training and quality assurance” we need to learn in order to protect ourselves? Thanks for the answers you have provided.
Jon,
When the company says “may be recorded for training and quality assurance purposes” and you continue to chat, the general rule is you have agreed to the recording.
What’s funny is if you say that to a company, they will refuse to talk to you. They don’t see the irony in that. 🙂
My position is if they say they are going to record, then that’s permission from them. So that should be permission for you to record. Not necessary that you record conversations but if you do it the right way it can be helpful. We just see people get focused on trying to record and they don’t really listen to the conversation and so we try to encourage folks that its fine to record (done correctly) but main thing is have the conversation and take good notes….
Thanks for kind comment by the way!
John Watts
In some of the comments here, there is the question if it is ok for someone to record if the business states “this call may be recorded”. I haven’t thought about this before, but they are NOT saying “this call might be recorded”. Therefore, it seems that they are saying that they are (maybe unwittingly) giving you permission to record the call. Would the listener be responsible for their possible misuse of the English language? (Or am I the one who misunderstands English?)
Ron,
I think if the recording says “This call may be recorded” then it is probably ok to assume they are giving consent. I have seen them argue “We only gave consent for ourselves to record, not for you” but I think that’s a weak argument.
Never know what a judge might do but pretty hard for them to say only they can record and they happened to have lost (“accidentally”) the call where they cussed you out or lied to you etc.
Those are my thoughts.
Thanks for the comment!
John Watts
Another comment addressed the possible complications of recording a call in a one-party state from a call in a two-party state. Is it illegal to record the call or illegal to “publish” the recorded call. Could someone legally record the call to review the information in order to take accurate notes.
Ron,
Thanks for you comment/question — so here’s the deal. If you are in a one party state — such as Alabama — it is legal to record a call without the other party knowing. But what if the call is coming from or going into a two party state? Sometimes the two party state says you have to have permission from both parties.
To my knowledge it doesn’t matter what you do with the call — either you have to have both parties consent or not. So whether you simply used it to take accurate notes wouldn’t matter.
There are usually exceptions in the two party state laws about documenting a crime, etc. but those vary widely. I think the safest thing is to make sure you have the other person’s permission before you record — either get it directly or let them tell you in an automated message that the calls may be recorded.
OK, “You the debt collector/mortgage company/etc say the calls can be recorded, I’m agreeable also, so I’m recording” is how the conversation would likely go in your head. 🙂
Hope that helps and let me know if any other questions — I’ll be happy to answer with my thoughts based from the perspective of a consumer in Alabama. If you want more than general thoughts, get with a lawyer to answer your specific questions but hopefully this general information is what you were looking for right now.
Have a great day!
John
What if the situation wasn’t with a bill collector & the person doing the recording was in a one party state & the other person that’s being recorded was also in another one party state. Would that person have to ask permission to record?
Lakita,
I can only speak to Alabama. Its fine to record here — the issue is if the other person is in a two party state. Your question mentions both folks are in one party states so that should be fine. But you have to check out the details to know for sure and our advice to our clients is to make sure both sides of a call know the call may be recorded.
Best wishes
John Watts
Thanks for this information, and for follwoing through over they years.
So, a question on a different note.
Scenario: I call a company or whatever, and I wish to record the call. When I call, a recording tells me that this call ‘may be recorded’, or the rep states it.
If I respond: This call may be recorded, as if in response (but not with the tone of a question), it can be assumed that they will say yes.
Even though this is a bit of trickery, can it be used as a legally obtained form of permission to record?
Mike,
Thanks for kind words.
I can’t give you legal advice in this setting but I’ll say in general that the concern is the two party state rule — so both parties have to consent.
The company takes the position that when they tell you the call may be recorded, that you consent to it by staying on.
OK, that sounds like you consented, right?
Well the company has to consent also — they told you it may be recorded.
I think both have consented.
Now, do you need to ask them a question/statement about being recorded? I don’t see any harm and it makes it stronger that they consented but in general I don’t think its needed.
Hope that helps as you think through this issue….
Best wishes!
John Watts
I am an attorney in flroida a two party consent state. my client in south Carolina taped all of our calls without my knowledge or consent. she is now threatenitng to use these tapes for something or other. I believe I had an expectation of privacy because of the attorney client privilege. any thoughts?
thanks
Jennifer,
I don’t know if South Carolina is a one party or two party state. If one party, then it depends on how Florida views it — does Florida law apply or SC law?
As far as privacy, I’m not sure just because attorney client you have that expectation — I’ve never looked at that issue. Certainly the client does but the client can break the attorney client privilege so not sure how that would work.
My suggestion is talk to your client and see what the issue is — maybe the relationship can be restored.
Best wishes
John Watts
I live in Florida a two party consent state. I have fallen behind on some bills and I get the calls from the companies beginning with a message “This call may be recorded….” or the rep says it. I don’t want to deal with them and so I simply state “I do not consent to be recorded” and usually it stops the call. Am I within my right to “not consent”. I also asked a person if I had their permission to record them during the call and they answered no even though they were recording me. It is always in the favor of the big company.
Linda — crazy isn’t it — they want to record you but not you record them.
Typically the reason is if the recorded call is good for them, they keep it.
If bad for them, they “accidentally” lose it in a computer glitch.
I don’t practice in Florida so get with a FL lawyer. I’ll say this, if a state says both parties have to consent, then it must be your choice to consent.
Now if you don’t consent, they may crank up collection activities including potentially suing so you have to consider that possibility and then make the best decision for yourself.
There are a number of good consumer protection lawyers in Florida — you can chat with one of them and find out your options. They may tell you to go ahead and talk with collectors or maybe not. All depends on your unique situation.
Sorry I can’t help you directly.
Best of success in dealing with these guys….
John Watts
I have been getting calls from debt collectors and every time I tell them that the call is being recorded on my side also the reply is that they do not consent to being recorded and they end the call. The last one who called from 866-396-4884 said: “Unfortunately I do not consent to being recorded.” Then the call was ended. Why do they not consent to being recorded but yet have no problem at all recording me??? That is not fair.
Larry,
Absolutely right.
It is funny how they want to record but don’t want you to record.
If they record and break the law, they will accidently lose the recording.
But if helpful to them, they don’t lose them.
They want that control — don’t want you to have any control.
I would keep doing what you are doing — if they don’t want to talk, they can send you a letter in the mail.
If you are in Alabama, let us know and we’ll be happy to see who this company is, help you check credit reports, etc.
Best wishes and thanks for your comment!
John
Two questions on this subject:
1) If you call a collector and notify them that you are attempting to resolve a supposed debt but will be recording the call and they subsequently refuse, can they take you to court over this? I ask because I’m concerned that this company will agree to one thing on the phone but will renege if I don’t have proof.
2) If you inform the caller that you will be recording yourself during the conversation but not them do they have the right to prevent me from recording only my end of the conversation?
Chad,
Thanks for your questions.
1. You can ask them and if they don’t agree, you may decide not to talk to them over the phone. But if they agree, then start recording and say “As we both just agreed to, I’m recording this call.” They normally will NOT agree to you recording — they’ll hang up.
2. They will record on their end also. Either there is permission to record or there is no permission. Doesn’t really work for only one side to say they have permission. Often the collector will say, “Only I can record — not you.” That’s garbage — they do that because if the recording helps them, they use it. If it hurts them, they “accidentally” destroy the recording.
Remember you don’t have to agree to a recording — you can take great notes and then immediately follow up with a letter detailing the conversation.
Bottom line is if dealing with a collector and you live in Alabama give us a call (205-879-2447) and we can walk you through your options dealing with them.
You are smart to figure out your options before you chat with them. There are some honorable debt collectors but there are a lot who don’t mind lying to you.
Make sure you know what the terms will be, what about credit reporting, what about taxes, etc. And I suggest you make sure this collector has the right to collect so you don’t pay the wrong person.
Best wishes
John Watts
205-879-2447
PS — if you do record, test out your recording equipment/app first. Make sure it is easy to use, etc.
Someone called my phone and it went to voicemail and I have a recording of them admitting of purchasing drugs is this against the law
Jessica,
It is not illegal for you to have a recording that someone left on your voicemail. Now it may be bad for them to have left a recording that they are violating the law if they purchased the drugs illegally.
If you are asking a different question than I answered please let me know. Also if you have any concerns or questions about whether something is criminal — especially with drugs — get with a lawyer who can give you specific advice. This is just general information — not legal advice — I’m passing along here.
Thanks and best wishes
John Watts
What about speech to text? Is that considered recording or taking notes?
Jonathan,
I would think that’s ok but here’s the safest rule.
Only record if the other side says it can be recorded. If they don’t say that, then ask them. If you need speech to text due to a disability of some type, let them know if they don’t otherwise say it is ok to record.
I’ll update this article as my position has “softened” over the years because most every collector or credit card company or mortgage company says, “Please be advised this call may be recorded” so it is much safer to record now that it was years ago when I first wrote this article.
Hope this helps and do let me know more details of the speech to text.
Thanks!!
John Watts
What if it’s a resident who is doing the harassing send recording three phone calls in hopes I say something wrong? I’m in a 2 party State, Texas??
Need to know please.
Thanks Bev
Beverly,
If someone is recording your calls and you don’t agree to it, get them to stop or you can always end the call.
I’m not sure what the law is in Texas about recording calls but if it is illegal without your consent then normally there is some type of action you can take. You’ll need to get with a Texas attorney as I simply don’t know the law in Texas.
Best wishes
John Watts
Hi, thank you for all the great advice. Just fyi. There are now fantastic phone apps you can download for free or pay a small fee for a fantastic one. I paid $1.59 for one that automatically records every conversation or you can adjust the options on who to record or not. It also somehow over rides your voicemail and you can start if you like using their voice mail. When I receive a call or make one and that person is not on my contact list they will hear after 3 rings. Hello, you have reached Joseph. Please hold and he will be with you shortly. Please note, all Joseph’s phone calls are recorded, Then my phone actually rings and I answer as normal. I have found that most people aka bill collectors still want to talk. The app plainly told them they are being recorded and even that part is recorded. The funny thing is I always have the very best customer service especially when they are calling me. For example, when you want to call Amazon and you are on their website you push “contact Amazon and we will call you back as soon as possible”. Many other companies have similar setups. It is sad I need something like this for people to be nice. My app came to the rescue big time when Tmobile called me after 6 months to say that they never received the $1000 device I mailed them. Three days after I mailed the device tmobile did a follow up call to make sure I was satisfied with my experience from 3 days earlier. I asked them if they received my device and he said let me see, yep…we did and it was received in good condition. I said ok thank you so im good to go, right? He replied yes and you have a zero balance. It took a lot of work but that 1 dollar app saved me $1000….otherwise I had no proof. UPS did not have a record after 6 months and I certainly did not. Hope my info is ok to share with your fans! I still take notes. I can not stress that enough. Take notes folks! Im in Alabama as well.
Joseph,
Thank you for your comments and the way you handle things. I like what you said and think folks will find your information and suggestions useful!
Thanks again!
John
If this is allowed the name of the app that works best with my phone is called Advanced call recording and upgrade to pro. There are many. Check a few out because they all behave differently with different phones and some you can not hear the caller well. All have a free version with limited options so you can try it out. Its no good if you can not here the person when replaying. I actually use it with my fantastic lawyer. I honestly understand very little legal mumbo jumbo. I replay it for my wife and she deciphers 4 me. 4 instance he requested specific info in a specific format. I graduated in 1998. We were still using typewriters. It helps me. I also seem to have a very selective memory. I can replay a conversation just to make sure I heard and understood it. Especially with legal or mefical info. Thanks!!
Thanks Joseph!
John Watts